Oh dear — I’ve picked up virtually none of these nuances and fear I will never remember most of it. It’s really useful stuff though. Many thanks for running through it so clearly.
butcherbird
May 17th, 2013 at 3:36 am
You certainly have analysed the situations well and perhaps if a time comes when I’ve been living in France for sufficient time, I might be able to try them. Ta muchly.
Rosemary Kneipp
May 17th, 2013 at 9:34 am
Look forward to seeing you soon.
Ellen
May 17th, 2013 at 5:30 pm
This is a really timely post for me! I’m American and recently moved to France to be with my new French husband, and I’ve been shocked (and often offended) by his resistance to apologize. In the US, especially the midwest, apologies are handed out quite easily. I’d never thought about it, but am now realizing that they play a major role in keeping the peace and demonstrating faith in relationships, and I’m finding it hard to move forward when it feels like one is being withheld. Here, it seems like an apology reflects someone’s personal shortcoming and has more do to with power than self-reflection and strengthening relationships. Reading this post, it strikes me that the kind of apology that is so common in American relationships may not even exist in French culture.
Rosemary Kneipp
May 17th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
Hi Ellen, you’ve analysed the situation well and I think that you will definitely have to change your expectations with respect to apologies from your French husband. The important thing is that he understands why you are upset about something. Remember that apologies in English can sometimes be very empty. My post yesterday was actually sparked off by something my husband did. It was not of great importance (he didn’t confirm he wasn’t coming home for lunch which messed me around) but it didn’t occur to him to apologize, only to give an explanation. His phone battery was flat. I suggested he could have borrowed someone else’s phone but he hadn’t thought of it. I prodded gently, explaining that it was rather annoying (but keeping a light tone). That’s when he came out with “Je m’excuse.” I just laughed and wrote the post.
So, don’t be offended when your husband doesn’t apologize. Try and see what other methods he uses to keep the peace. Just admitting that he’s wrong about something is probably apology enough.
One very big word of advice – the more you keep your sense of humour in a mixed language relationship, the better it’ll be!
Ellen
May 19th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Rosemary. The story you described sounds a lot like many experiences that I’ve had and it’s helpful to know that I’m not alone in noticing the difference and will keep your advice in mind. Not always easy to stay light in these situations but oh so important!
[…] the foggiest idea of the answer and are playing for time. They may have a stab (typically French, particularly if you are male) but by saying bonne question, they are telling you that it’s only guess […]
I found the post…Ill keep it open to read and learn after I have finished writing my little piece….Nice to see you have won some awards – congratulations 🙂
This is very interesting, thank you, including the comments threads. It throws light on differing cultural expectations and the way in which a perceived failure to adhere to conventions on grovelling can exacerbate arguments and misunderstandings…
Rosemary Kneipp
October 8th, 2016 at 10:54 am
I still remain perplexed at when people apologize and when they don’t. I had a RdV with a real estate agent this week. I phoned when she was ten minutes late to check I was at the right spot. She was still in the office and said she’d be right over. I sat down on the cold stone steps and waited another 10 minutes. She arrived with the wrong keys and didn’t have her cell phone. We used my cell to phone the office for the keys but no one could come. We walked back to her office to get the keys. I ended up buying the flat she was showing me 🙂 but never at any stage did she actually apologize for keeping me waiting and not calling me. I only got an explanation “the previous RdV took more time than expected” (it was also a sale). Fortunately, I did not let any of this rile me and the agent was otherwise very pleasant and efficient!
Frémont Guy
November 15th, 2017 at 4:30 pm
“navré” is widely used, but less often than désolé because very deeper (sad).
At the theater:
“Je suis désolé, il n’ y a plus de place”. Sorry.
but
“Je suis navré de n’avoir pu assister à votre spectacle car j’ai eu un empêchement de dernière minute”. Sad, sincerely sad… If je suis “désolé”, OK, mais on s’en f..t un peu.
Yes, “navré” is more sincère, thus serious.
Oh dear — I’ve picked up virtually none of these nuances and fear I will never remember most of it. It’s really useful stuff though. Many thanks for running through it so clearly.
You certainly have analysed the situations well and perhaps if a time comes when I’ve been living in France for sufficient time, I might be able to try them. Ta muchly.
Look forward to seeing you soon.
This is a really timely post for me! I’m American and recently moved to France to be with my new French husband, and I’ve been shocked (and often offended) by his resistance to apologize. In the US, especially the midwest, apologies are handed out quite easily. I’d never thought about it, but am now realizing that they play a major role in keeping the peace and demonstrating faith in relationships, and I’m finding it hard to move forward when it feels like one is being withheld. Here, it seems like an apology reflects someone’s personal shortcoming and has more do to with power than self-reflection and strengthening relationships. Reading this post, it strikes me that the kind of apology that is so common in American relationships may not even exist in French culture.
Hi Ellen, you’ve analysed the situation well and I think that you will definitely have to change your expectations with respect to apologies from your French husband. The important thing is that he understands why you are upset about something. Remember that apologies in English can sometimes be very empty. My post yesterday was actually sparked off by something my husband did. It was not of great importance (he didn’t confirm he wasn’t coming home for lunch which messed me around) but it didn’t occur to him to apologize, only to give an explanation. His phone battery was flat. I suggested he could have borrowed someone else’s phone but he hadn’t thought of it. I prodded gently, explaining that it was rather annoying (but keeping a light tone). That’s when he came out with “Je m’excuse.” I just laughed and wrote the post.
So, don’t be offended when your husband doesn’t apologize. Try and see what other methods he uses to keep the peace. Just admitting that he’s wrong about something is probably apology enough.
One very big word of advice – the more you keep your sense of humour in a mixed language relationship, the better it’ll be!
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Rosemary. The story you described sounds a lot like many experiences that I’ve had and it’s helpful to know that I’m not alone in noticing the difference and will keep your advice in mind. Not always easy to stay light in these situations but oh so important!
[…] the foggiest idea of the answer and are playing for time. They may have a stab (typically French, particularly if you are male) but by saying bonne question, they are telling you that it’s only guess […]
I found the post…Ill keep it open to read and learn after I have finished writing my little piece….Nice to see you have won some awards – congratulations 🙂
HTH!
Great post, Rosemary. Thank you 🙂 will share!
Thank you Jill!
This is very interesting, thank you, including the comments threads. It throws light on differing cultural expectations and the way in which a perceived failure to adhere to conventions on grovelling can exacerbate arguments and misunderstandings…
I still remain perplexed at when people apologize and when they don’t. I had a RdV with a real estate agent this week. I phoned when she was ten minutes late to check I was at the right spot. She was still in the office and said she’d be right over. I sat down on the cold stone steps and waited another 10 minutes. She arrived with the wrong keys and didn’t have her cell phone. We used my cell to phone the office for the keys but no one could come. We walked back to her office to get the keys. I ended up buying the flat she was showing me 🙂 but never at any stage did she actually apologize for keeping me waiting and not calling me. I only got an explanation “the previous RdV took more time than expected” (it was also a sale). Fortunately, I did not let any of this rile me and the agent was otherwise very pleasant and efficient!
“navré” is widely used, but less often than désolé because very deeper (sad).
At the theater:
“Je suis désolé, il n’ y a plus de place”. Sorry.
but
“Je suis navré de n’avoir pu assister à votre spectacle car j’ai eu un empêchement de dernière minute”. Sad, sincerely sad… If je suis “désolé”, OK, mais on s’en f..t un peu.
Yes, “navré” is more sincère, thus serious.