How interesting! I had always assumed the two words must be from the same root, but it does explain why the two words describe different parts of the building.
Rosemary Kneipp
April 12th, 2013 at 10:56 am
Yes, I too was convinced that there must have been a change in meaning from one language to the other.
Barb
April 12th, 2013 at 1:56 am
There’s a great description of most magnificent donjon ever in Barbara Tuchman’s ‘A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century’ – a great rambling book about the Black Death and the French/English politics of the 100 Year War. Situated in Picardy and owned by the Sire de Coucy this donjon was 180ft high and capable of housing 1000 men in a siege. Really interesting book even if it doesn’t sound like fun.
Rosemary Kneipp
April 12th, 2013 at 10:56 am
One thousand men sounds like a lot during a seige. Is it still standing?
[…] What is generally called a castle in English is actually a château fort in French. Prime examples are Chinon and Angers. Fort means strong and is obviously at the origin of fort/fort and fortress/forteresse. We have our Anglosaxon word stronghold. Châteaux forts had moats/fosses, ramparts/ramparts, towers/tours and keeps/donjons. […]
[…] But there are many others, all with different appeal, that are well worth a visit. Langeais is a royal castle and fortress, while Villesavin, Montpoupon and Beauregard are châteaux. […]
Jorgen Fagerquist
March 18th, 2021 at 10:17 pm
But wasn’t french the dominant language by aristocracy until 15th century in england? Would the English peasants at the time refer to it the castle as a dongon? Is how the word is derived linguistically through documents the correct approach or how it could have been used by common people who pass it down as part of the common vernacular?
Rosemary Kneipp
March 21st, 2021 at 12:22 pm
Absolutely and that is where the confusion came from.
Friday’s French – donjons and dungeons http://t.co/1pZAZQ3Il7
How interesting! I had always assumed the two words must be from the same root, but it does explain why the two words describe different parts of the building.
Yes, I too was convinced that there must have been a change in meaning from one language to the other.
There’s a great description of most magnificent donjon ever in Barbara Tuchman’s ‘A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century’ – a great rambling book about the Black Death and the French/English politics of the 100 Year War. Situated in Picardy and owned by the Sire de Coucy this donjon was 180ft high and capable of housing 1000 men in a siege. Really interesting book even if it doesn’t sound like fun.
One thousand men sounds like a lot during a seige. Is it still standing?
[…] What is generally called a castle in English is actually a château fort in French. Prime examples are Chinon and Angers. Fort means strong and is obviously at the origin of fort/fort and fortress/forteresse. We have our Anglosaxon word stronghold. Châteaux forts had moats/fosses, ramparts/ramparts, towers/tours and keeps/donjons. […]
[…] But there are many others, all with different appeal, that are well worth a visit. Langeais is a royal castle and fortress, while Villesavin, Montpoupon and Beauregard are châteaux. […]
But wasn’t french the dominant language by aristocracy until 15th century in england? Would the English peasants at the time refer to it the castle as a dongon? Is how the word is derived linguistically through documents the correct approach or how it could have been used by common people who pass it down as part of the common vernacular?
Absolutely and that is where the confusion came from.